Comments on Fighting Monsters with Rubber Swords: Priorities

Perhaps. But we also make it harder on ourselves ...

2008-08-29T02:49:41.321-05:00

Perhaps. But we also make it harder on ourselves when we fight insignificant battles, and I'm sorry, but I believe that this is one of them.

I think this is an important issue for advocacy bu...

2008-08-29T01:13:13.187-05:00

I think this is an important issue for advocacy but SO is respectful language. We're the world's largest minority...we don't have to only pick 1 battle at a time.

TOTALLY off-topic, but if you ever want to buy/cre...

2008-08-26T20:19:42.483-05:00

TOTALLY off-topic, but if you ever want to buy/create a monster for Schuyler... you should check out http://www.missingmonsters.com/site/?page_id=2 it's soo creative and interesting and I thought with your daughter's love of all things monster-ish, this might fit the bill well.

If the general is even close to Louisianna law the...

2008-08-26T12:47:15.479-05:00

If the general is even close to Louisianna law then it's pretty wimpy. In one ISD the school has to notify the parent. The parent signs a wavier and is allowed to administer three licks. This is done in a closed office with a paddle about 3/8" thick by maybe 2-1/2" x 8". No, even this is not apporient for children in special ed setting. However, if the child is in mainstream classes then it should be parents choice.

I have to say that while I do not believe in corpo...

2008-08-26T12:17:59.812-05:00

I have to say that while I do not believe in corporal punishment, I do agree with Liz:
"Now, if you're a caregiver for a disabled kid, your baseline stress level is going to be significantly higher than it would be otherwise... that's a hell of a lot of pent-up frustration."

When I began working in a daycare classroom of 3- and 4-year-olds, I was appalled at the way the daycare workers yelled at the kids and were generally mean to several of the 'trouble makers'. But as time wore on, so did the disobedient kids my nerves. I became increasingly quick to snap at a child and lose my temper - we were understaffed, and many of the children in our class had behavioral problems (no intentional PFL there...).

The day I decided to leave my job there was the day I was already waaaaaaay stressed and became so angry with a child throwing a tantrum (who was lashing out at me and other children with anything in her path) that I was shaking. I was genuinely afraid that if someone did not remove her from my room, I was going to hit her.

I am not that kind of person. I am not someone who believes in violence as a solution, nor someone who believes that physically disciplining your child is the way to get things done. But, as Liz said, I can unfortunately see how it can happen when a teacher becomes frustrated with a child, and especially in states where it is legally allowed.

According to human rights organizations, more than...

2008-08-25T15:45:56.479-05:00

According to human rights organizations, more than 200,000 US school children were spanked or paddled in school in the past year. And a disproportionately high number of these kids were students with physical or mental disabilities...
http://www.confoozled.com/archives/disabled_children_paddled_in_school.php

Dark Ages comes to mind.

2008-08-25T12:12:32.454-05:00

Dark Ages comes to mind.

Oh yes, and just to give you a laugh - I'm on a me...

2008-08-24T20:37:07.568-05:00

Oh yes, and just to give you a laugh - I'm on a medication sold here as Efexor XL (Effexor XR in North America). It's legal for pharmacies to buy their drugs from anywhere in the EU, so I get my prescription in different packaging every time, depending on which supplier was cheapest at the time. As a result I get normal UK Wyeth Efexor XL (boring), generic venlafaxine extended release (extra boring), branded FAXINE with braille on the box for the blind and a happy rainbow for the sighted (inspired), and strangely packaged Wyeth medication from other countries. This means that some months I take Vandral Retard, whereas other months I take Dobupal Retard.

I have retard pills!

Some of this may come from the fact that it's easy...

2008-08-24T20:30:05.553-05:00

Some of this may come from the fact that it's easy to protest the use of an "offensive" word in a movie. All you need to do is stand outside a few cinemas with signs, maybe write a quick letter to a newspaper, or a 5 minute blog post. Job done. Whereas protesting the use of corporal punishment in schools requires that you do actual research about whether it is used in your state/country, what is meant by "corporal punishment" in your state/country, and how much it's used. I'd expect the amount of effort to be even worse in the US where an apparently simple two-part question of "Is it okay to hit kids or not? Is it still okay if they're disabled?" will get bound up with religion, political affiliation, the constitution, and almost certainly, gun control laws. (To those of us outside the US, it seems that virtually every major internet flame war involving Americans digresses into the Second Amendment, as if it applied universally to the whole planet! While crazy ultra-conservative Qristians pop up with beliefs like beating the hell out of children to install the fear of God into them, which bears no relation to any branch of Christianity we know about. I do feel sorry for all the sane people in your country!).

Essentially, people-in-general are fundamentally lazy. And being an activist takes a lot of energy, doubly so if you are a person of limited energy due to disability. You pick battles that involve little effort, will get press attention, and are easy to win. Because the alternative is to go for something a lot more important, which will also require a lot more effort and arguing. At least by attempting small battles, you might get more people on your side to help spread the load of the bigger battles?

I totally get the points people are making but hav...

2008-08-24T10:05:33.055-05:00

I totally get the points people are making but have to chime in on the issue of priorities. As long as our "broken" or "special" children continue to be perceived as retarded and people think corporal punishment is the only way to get through it's just a vicious cycle. My protest of using the word "retard" has less to do with hurt feelings than it does the tacit permission it gives others to assume my child (and others) is incapable of feeling, learning, developing talents and interests. And the bullying which generally follows such incongruous thinking —by both adults and children's peers.

Absolutely, I think we need to put an immediate end to corporal punishment in schools. Only then will we make headway in having our educators actually recognize that behaviors are communications; maybe they'll start to try to figure out what the message is and address *that.* Well, in a perfect world anyway...

I'm in the same boat as a lot of the commenters - ...

2008-08-24T08:28:10.304-05:00

I'm in the same boat as a lot of the commenters - I had no idea corporal punishment in schools wasn't against the law everywhere. I'm pretty sure it is up here in Canada and I guess that's why I assumed it would also be that way in the U.S.

Well this just kinda hacks me off. We're a spanki...

2008-08-23T21:19:24.889-05:00

Well this just kinda hacks me off. We're a spanking family when we need to be, but we rarely if ever spank our disabled son. He just doesn't need it, or get it. It's cruel and harsh with him. And schools do it? For shame.

Wow, I too had no idea that corporal punishment wa...

2008-08-23T13:49:50.111-05:00

Wow, I too had no idea that corporal punishment was still legal anywhere in the US. I'm a teacher, first in California and now in Arizona, and we're warned over and over about the lawsuits that await from ever laying a finger on a child. The idea of school meting out such punishments, especially to a special-needs child, is frightening. As good-intentioned as schools can be, bureaucracy is always going to make misjudgments and mistakes about individual children.

On the role of spanking by parents, though... I was spanked by my parents as a child and I'm very glad they did so (now, of course, not at the time :-) Their spanking was never in anger... I would be sent to my room, to await whenever my mom felt calm again, then she would go over with me exactly what the behavior was (always something that was disobedience, never an accident), that the spanking was to remind me not to disobey, and that she loved me. After the spanking, she would always be available for a hug whenever I wanted it. I was an argumentative, type-A kid, and saw all other forms of punishment pretty much as a joke (time out? bring it on. No toys? I'll go lay on the couch and just think). Spanking worked for me and never once did I feel threatened or abused. I also understood that it was a parent-child role and didn't think that this meant I could go hit other people. I'm now pregnant with my first and will consider using spanking in the same way, if their personality is such that other consequences are ineffective.

You've hit on one of my pet peeve areas as well. ...

2008-08-22T15:48:13.527-05:00

You've hit on one of my pet peeve areas as well. I think that every teacher and administrator should be required to read "The Out-of Sync Child" or at least sit through a teacher in-service on sensory integration issues. I used to watch this when my now 19 year old daughter was in elementary school. One boy in particular would get sent to the principals office on a daily basis because he could not settle down in class. I wish I had had the confidence back then to go to the special ed teacher and say. . ."Hey, can we try an experiment? When Aaron starts to get out of hand in class today, have an aide take him out to shoot some baskets or run with him around the playground. Help him to expend some energy. . .and lets see if he settles down." So many of these kids cannot self-regulate themselves and have no impulse control. . .NOT because they CHOOSE to be this way, but because of a myriad of reasons. . .and often it has to do with something in their sensory system that is askew . . .and there are proven methods to help the body regulate again. But simply telling them to sit down and pay attention is useless. And worse yet, is punishing them for a behavior that a majority of them cannot control. When I would try to bring up SI issues and evaluating my daughter for those, the schools never wanted to address that because they were not "educational issues" and suggested I take that up with our doctor. I think that is short-sighted, because if SI is interfering with Hannah's ability, or Aarons ability or any child's ability to focus and attend to the classwork on hand. . .then it becomes an educational issue.

A family member of ours lives in Georgia and the t...

2008-08-22T06:01:45.217-05:00

A family member of ours lives in Georgia and the teachers told her she needed to give them permission to paddle her 5 yr old or pull him from school. She gave them the permission. I can't even imagine a teacher here in NH attempting to spank a kid. They'd be in court so fast!

You hit upon one of my pet peeves. The important ...

2008-08-22T00:16:14.863-05:00

You hit upon one of my pet peeves. The important priorities are not discussed. Maybe they are too complex for the general public -- but I don't think so. Issues that stir up people rise to the top, like the word "retard" rather than the more general problem of how we treat the disabled, be it mental or physical. Protesting the use of "retard" gets press, but does it advance the cause or just get peoples names in the news? Me thinketh it is the latter.

I don't get it. I don't smack my husband when he ...

2008-08-21T17:31:34.620-05:00

I don't get it. I don't smack my husband when he annoys me, or doesn't do what I ask.

I don't grab my mom and shake her around when she's walking too slowly to suit me.

Why, oh why, would I do that to my child?

Guess I'll be asking about discipline methods when Chico goes back to Pre-K next week.

Back when I was in junior high in Texas (like 20 y...

2008-08-21T15:46:40.761-05:00

Back when I was in junior high in Texas (like 20 years ago, gah), we used to go on a long distance run in athletics. There was this one place that if you cut through this field, you could probably cut off maybe 1/4 mile from the run. I didn't try it the first few times we ran but after a few times I finally tried it. Unfortunately that was the day the coach decided to drive by to make sure no one was cheating. Nine of us got caught.

We were given a choice, pops or running laps after school for a week. All of us wanted pops (get it over with quick), but we had to get a permission slip signed by your parents saying which option you would get. My mom was totally against me getting paddled. So the next day, one by one, all the other boys went into his office and came out rubbing their butts with that "yow that stings but I'm a tough guy and won't let it show" look on their faces. It was almost a rite of passage. When it was my turn, I gave the coach my slip. He looked at the paper, looked at me, shrugged, and said to meet him after school.

I got to spend the next week fending off "why didn't you get pops? Are you a wuss? Why didn't you just forge your mom's signature? Are you scared of pops?" After school I got to have people watch, point, and laugh as I ran around the track. Yeah, that was real fun.

I'm a parent now (7 mo. old daughter) and I would be absolutely furious if someone tried to spank her. I also can't think of any reason to spank disabled children. But thinking back to that time in 8th grade, I would have loved to get paddled.

I'm with you. The protests are the best thing that...

2008-08-21T15:41:55.565-05:00

I'm with you. The protests are the best thing that could have happened to the movie in question. Without them, it would have been forgotten in a month. With the outcry over the terrible, terrible R word thousands of adolescent boys will be lining up to see it.
I saw video footage of some of the protesters and they looked more concerned with in waving their signs correctly than outraged over being called you-know-whats.
Instead of trying to eradicate a word it would be better to teach kids how to respond when they are called that word.
The lack of priorities is shocking. Children are being beaten. In school. And it's ignored while parents of "special" kids get their panties in a bunch over a word. I call that retarded.

I live in Tennessee, where paddling is still allow...

2008-08-21T08:47:47.155-05:00

I live in Tennessee, where paddling is still allowed in public schools. My older daughter moved to private this year and I haven't seen mention of paddling in the handbook.
To paraphrase the handbook of the public school my 8 year old daughter attends: "Corporal punishment/paddling is only administered after less stringent measures have failed; parents will be contacted prior to paddling; paddling shall be reasonable;will be in proportion to the gravity of the offense & apparent disposition of the offender; consideration given to age, gender, size, physical & emotional condition of the child."
My children don't behave in a manner that would warrant paddling but if they did I wouldn't authorize it.
Thrity-odd years ago when I was in elementary school, teachers were not required to inform parents beforehand, and it wasn't until I was in junior high that a teacher was required to inform a parent after the fact. There were 2 3rd grade teachers in my school who would line up the entire class for a paddling. It was a good thing I didn't have either teacher because my mom wouldn't have enjoyed spending a night in jail for kicking that teacher's behind.

I have a three year old that is as full of mischie...

2008-08-20T23:54:40.341-05:00

I have a three year old that is as full of mischief as any little girl I know, but the idea of hitting her in any way, shape or form has never even crossed my mind. I can't imagine the fallout if I ever found out that a teacher spanked or paddled her. I would surely need for you to help in my bail money raising efforts. As for anyone using corporal punishment on those who need the most patience and understanding, that is just beyond reproach. There is no excuse for spanking a child. Ever. Period.

Thanks for the perspective. Here I was getting cau...

2008-08-20T21:39:44.432-05:00

Thanks for the perspective. Here I was getting caught up in the anti-Stiller buzz. We've got bigger fish to fry.

This is a sore point for me, as I will never forge...

2008-08-20T20:28:17.405-05:00

This is a sore point for me, as I will never forget my outrage when the principal at my son's school paddled him. My son (three years old at the time) had a tendency to out of control rages due to his traumatic brain injury...which was the result of horrific abuse. I was dumbfounded when the principal called me to report that he had paddled Marcus. I asked the principal if he was aware of Marcus' history. His answer, in a Gomer Pyle sort of accent, was, "Well, I didn't BEAT him...har-har." Later in his elementary career, the school threatened to "third party" him, ie, get the police involved. He was in second or third grade at the time. Is it any wonder that I eventually took Marcus out of public school to homeschool him...and his PTSD evaporated?

Their priorities are also "whacked". Heh.I'm a te...

2008-08-20T19:22:14.591-05:00

Their priorities are also "whacked". Heh.

I'm a teacher in Washington and it floors me that corporal punishment is legal. My ass would get fired so fast I'd hardly know what hit me (puns intended).

I was spanked as a child and refuse to spank as a parent (or teacher, obviously!). I choose to be an example of the fact that violence is NEVER the way to address ANY problem.

~Leah
my pink toes

Sorry about that double posting. Apparently my com...

2008-08-20T18:45:33.544-05:00

Sorry about that double posting. Apparently my computer has some priorities of its own...